'Just friends'

[fingertrouble]

Hmm, the weird thing about being over 40 is being in this odd hinterland, being sexually dropped for 'fresh fruit' - amount of bears and older bearded/hairy guys who are only looking for 18-20's aged guys is depressing (given what bears was originally about), and I probably didn't know how unique I was back then...I liked older guys AND wasn't expected to get paid. No wonder they loved me, saved them so much money for rent :-P

Just had the 'just be friends' line via someone who seemed interested but apparently now is only attracted to guys in their 20's, I wished he'd made that clear...

The irony will be is by the time I might be considered eligible again - e.g. 50-60+ 'daddy' type with grey/white beard (already getting close with the latter) and maybe attractive to the late 20's-30's group*, I suspect I might have just given up bothering. :-(


* Unlike these chicken hawk bears, I don't go for that 'student' age group, even though a few have expressed interest out and about I'm always suspecting they might just want my wallet! Nor do I pretend I am younger, or go to the gym, or cut my beard - all things that would 'improve' my chances, but I see no reason to change myself just to shag someone that shallow...what's the saying? My right hand is a better lover? :-P

Comments

From the content of your post.

[lilchiva.livejournal.com]

It really just sounds like you're not superficially attracted to the type of people who are currently superficially attracted to you. Maybe, I misunderstand. But, you seem to be saying that you don't "don't go for that 'student' age group, even though a few have expressed interest." And, well, the wallet is always a concern, when you have one and the other person doesn't.

At the same time, the wallet doesn't always mean some degrading prostitution situation. I used to be really grossed out by daddy/twink, and the lesbian/heterosexual analogs: It's just exploitative. But, I have come to realize that

1. many people don't have this issue and are perfectly fine with that dynamic
2. If your persona is powerful, then you are going to be expected to provide demonstration of that power. Having money is a signal that you can provide security. And, you're a god damned bear. SO, having a wallet is actually a very strong signal that you actually have the bear qualities you present with. So, the "why's" of this dynamic aren't always automatically "someone is exploiting the shit out of someone else'.
3. The high horse is a ride for kids 12 and under. I, personally, have missed out on a ton of fun due to my insistence on riding it and worrying about exploitative undertones between consenting adults.


Also, I am truly sorry nobody told you about "The Twink's guide to investments and securities". You were done a total disservice with that. Though, if you were anything like most young people, you'd probably wouldn't have bought into that anyway. Because, let's face it: While that works, it lacks specific integrity, and that's a grotesque premise for any young person who has a lot of integrity. And, considering this post, about sexual integrity, is even happening, my guess is that you were a "young person with a ton of specific integrity'.

Hope it was alright to say all that. If not, my bad.

Re: From the content of your post.

[fingertrouble.livejournal.com]

Well this post isn't really about money, but of course it comes up because the age group I'm talking about can expect returns, even if it's just 'nephew' benefits. I never did, but some expect something for their youth. I wasn't criticising that, or meaning to - more the older men's buying into that whole thing, or the way I was I think treated as someone in my 20's - I was the fresh meat, I see that now. Then I was just having fun, but those people (same people) won't give me a second look now (apart from my partner who I met at the same age). Hmm.

That's...strange. I acknowledge people have desires and likes, and that mine have shifted and will shift - possibly younger but given I really go for bearded hairy guys, and find experience and knowledge sexy...unlikely. I find those who are only hard-wired to underage or chicken or twink times a little bit strange though, a bit like slightly more acceptable paedophiles. I have had sex with guys younger than me...once! Not often, but the fallout from aging I expect that number to grow as more people are younger than older, it's maths.

I came out when I was 23 - and liked men 50-70+ so I completely skipped the Twink thing, I didn't like that music or the clubs. Hate fashion, dislike bitching mostly, and really never fit within that culture. I was a cub. Ish. Not that I fit there either...but more than the clubbing/tweaking/tight tshirt crowd. I've had a beard since I was 17, when it wasn't fashionable...so no.

I'd not have taken money, no. That would have freaked me out...I'm not rent. But I do realise that in a way I was used - willingly - at the time. I had fun, but I wasn't aware even I, scruffy bearded cub late bloomer, had a a cachet like that!

But I don't freak out at daddy/son, daddy/nephew, master/slave or master/puppy or any of that. I used to be more icked out, and wouldn't do it myself I think - but consenting adults.

What I do find odd is that men well over 50+ - kind of beyond what even I would consider as a gerontophile 23 year old - want 18-22 year olds for free, they put on 'NOT a Sugar Daddy' and stuff like that. I suspect others aren't as principled as me, and it's asking a lot for 20 year olds to desire 70 year olds. It's possible - I did shag one then - but very rare. As my partner said 'not without paying you won't!'.

The young guys aren't the only interest, but not much, and yes not really the guys I go for...and the guys I go for seem to want twinks, or are far far away. It's a weird triangle. Problem is I'm rather hard-wired, I have tried with guys I'm not attracted to but it usually doesn't work...not always, but unless really horny I do like a wide type of guys but specific things...ones that the older age group seem to want to remove to seem more attractive - beards/facial hair, body hair, weight, etc.

So hence lots of thin hairless barefaced guys who might be in my age range (it's wide, 30-75+), and a few express interest. The ones I like know their 'market' and go for the young ones. *sigh*

Re: From the content of your post.

[lilchiva.livejournal.com]

I hope that didn't come off as excessively didactic. My intention was "This is what I used to do and if there's some overlap with your situation then I hope it helps". I tend to skew older but the people who hit on me are all kids. (19-29)

I retired under 40, but it's a "working class" retirement. So I don't have a ton of major common concerns with the people who are in my age group (35-60). I don't currently have kids, don't have a career, don't worry about bills, have no desire to work largely for toys. I'm set. Basically, at this point, my dating pool consists of geriatrics, people with disabilities, people like me, and young people. And, really, there's a lot more young people than people who, for whatever reason, are done working.

(I do get some people looking for a meal ticket. But, they tend to fade out after they realize that "No. This life raft is mostly made for one. And, I really plan on living in this house forever and driving this car until it dies".)

All is TL/Dr way of saying, I eventually just bit the bullet and started dating a bunch of young people. And, it's really fun. Maybe, I'll eventually find an artist type, widow, or trust fund baby, who is in similar situation. But, otherwise, dating a grad student is a pretty decent way to go.

Re: From the content of your post.

[fingertrouble.livejournal.com]

Yeah maybe...I'm getting a real 'men I like, don't like me' vibe recently...it's like I never add guys I fancy on Facebook because I end up finding they are a right-wing nutcase or racist or something...or their mates are, and have to click unfriend.

Case in point, just got a 'No thanks' from an 83 year old, probably because I'm 'too old' for him as his profile sets out 20-45 (I'm 42 but look older). Hmmph. Seems the over 75's are now also getting picky UNLESS you're at a sauna and it's all 'hell yes stick it in' Mr Right Now. Outside? Nope. Tis odd?

I can't afford to go to the sauna much though...:-/ So yeah I'm going to have to try and find pastures new. Difficulty is guys I'm attracted to tend to be older, but some point as I said I will need to shift downwards...

Suddenly the Koons is you

[lilchiva.livejournal.com]

Well it might be true. But, if that's the case you have to either change your preferences or change how you present, so as to better catch who ya want. Or, it could just be a phase where, for whatever reason, you're just not connecting with others. Or, and this is most likely, you could not be upping your numbers to beat the averages. There are innumerable possibilities!

Owning my own business has taught me that sales logic transfers, at least a little, into most areas of "getting what you want" Sales statistics please me. They tell me that regardless of my personal defects, if I meet enough people, I can still get laid. And, ya know, so far that's actually been the case.

(Laugh or please forgive the crassness of the following metaphor.)

You are selling Vitamin D. And, even though you have a great brand, your conversions are still going to, generally, be less than 10%. That's true for great brands like Apple and Gaga. And, that's true for you and me. It's a fact, being "great at sales" is actually 90% failure. So, the real question is: How many hoards of hungry bears are you willing to talk to, in order to find the ones who work for you?


Can I just say that I am forever jealous of the gay male bathhouse scene?

Honestly, the biggest drawback to being a lesbian is that we are not, as a general group, as free about the sex. Many times, in my adult life, I wished that I too could just take some poppers and have a semi anonymous person wank me off.

And, that's the beauty of statistics. The truth is that there are loads of lesbians who are into that as well. I just had to up my averages. And, hey, I realize going to Chicago for a sauna weekend is kinda expensive and maybe lame. But, I happen to own a sauna. (Rather my HOA has a couple) And, as a consequence, I have the ability to make some fantasy fulfillment happen, for me, on the cheap.

I hope this was both amusing and informative.

[tonethbone.livejournal.com]

Here what you learn as you get older: Fuck anyone who judges you solely on your age..they are not worth the precious hours of your life. I have had a 18 year relationship with someone who is 20 years younger than me...and the subject of our age difference has never come up. He loves me because of what i am inside...and vice versa.

[fingertrouble.livejournal.com]

Thanks...yeah same with my partner. It just gets a bit hard when no-one else sees it that way, and seem to think their sexual or otherwise relationships only come in a very small restrictive box of likes.

Strange thing: I was told by these people years ago that I was 'wrong' because I was restricting my choices with bearded guys and bearish/older. Some truth to that, but I note with interest as those 'chicken hawks' got past 60 they had a similar problem I am having, despite looking very much that type, they were also being judged...so the 20 year olds thought they were too old!

What goes around...