All men are considered equal?

[fingertrouble]

I posted this early this morning but like the result it was a complete FAIL.

Basically the jubilation about Obama faded within an hour, because of Proposition 8 in CA and Prop 2 in Florida being passed. President Obama is against the proposition but wimps out in the usual 'civil union' like we have here. Better than being against I suppose . Sigh.

So call me the party pooper but it's obvious there is a long way to go before my friends in US get the same rights we have here, and become equal rathere than second class citizens because of who they love.

And the scary thing? Some of those who voted Yes must've also voted from Obama.

So as I said elsewhere, great step but when are you going to get an atheist president? True seperation of church and state would be a good start...rather than it being a campaigning platform. Then maybe we could all get past the mumbo jumbo and be truly free at last.

Comments

[tga.livejournal.com]

I am still very happy Obama has won. It's a great step forward but what is truly needed is a leap. It's promising that Obama even mentioned gay people in his speech but from what I understand, government, no matter who well the intentions, can't change state legislation.

I think civil partnership will be the only way to go in the states now. There is too much stigma with the word "marriage" and if straight people want it so bad - let them keep it and they can keep their high divorce rates and cheap shotgun weddings.


However, it really sucks that they can't see what they are doing with such propositions and the lives they ruinn with it. In saying this though, if there is going to be a civil partnership in America, I do hope they do what they have done here and make the rights and laws of married people and civil partners are exactly the same. Give the church weddings to the straights - let me them waste their money and have the precious marriage - just give us the fucking rights! :-)

[timbearcub.livejournal.com]

True; although I'm still not totally sure about the 'seperate but equal' status in the UK - I'm glad it's there, and church wedding as you say isn't really important - but it's perceived as being somehow secondary. I prefer the Spain approach where there is absolutely no difference, it's marriage for both.

Any difference means that somehow it's seen as 'lesser', and the message goes out that we are somehow different - even if we have the same rights, it just seems a fudge.

But yeah, even that would be a step forward for our friends in the US. Grrr.

[tga.livejournal.com]

It's only seen as lesser if you chose to see it that way. From what I could tell, the reason it was called a civil partnership was a compromise to the religous freaks out there. Ultimately, it's the same thing in regards of law but at least people that are civil partnered don't have to pay out hefty fees for divorce. In a way, we have it better. Maybe you should look out it more positively!

[viridescence]

And the scary thing? Some of those who voted Yes must've also voted from Obama.

That's not surprising. If Obama had been an advocate of same-sex marriage, he wouldn't have won. It's the sad truth. It's two steps forward, one step back.

Several states had laws banning marriage between blacks and whites until the 1967 Supreme Court decision Loving v. Virginia. Wording related to the ban was still in the constitution of at least one state that I can think of as late as 2000. So the change is slow to come, but it will come. I do truly believe that.

Yeah....I don't see that ever happening.

[eskanto]

As a gay "African-"American, I remind you that our country was founded by your die-hard fundamentalist rejects. Separation of church and state may have been intended by the Founding Fathers, but it's always been kind of glossed over....

In any case, this is a major step for racial civil rights. To me, all civil rights struggles are related. Unfortunately, straight (often religious, even lapsed) Black Americans don't see it that way. Thus, as you pointed out, many Obama supporters must have voted against gay rights.

I live in Wisconsin, which state strongly supported Obama, unlike my home state of Missouri with a margin to close to call (even now...) but both states ban gay marriage/unions/etc, and support anti-gay legislation.

Unfortunately American gays will have to take what we can get as far as equal rights. Blacks didn't get full civil rights all at once, either. We will simply have to keep fighting for full equality for the future, while enjoying what freedoms we can achieve for today.

This is why I had decided to live abroad in the Anglophone world a long time ago. But Australia and England are way different from the US, and I don't think I could adjust. And Wisconsin is cold enough, so I'm rethinking Canada....

Re: Yeah....I don't see that ever happening.

[timbearcub.livejournal.com]

Yes it's sad they don't see it that way - I know for a fact that the Gay Liberation Front people like my partner and' his friend fought also for black civil rights - my partner did so in South Africa much to his personal and physical loss (like losing his teeth in a a SA police cell)...eventually having to leave in '72. They are linked, totally, and had to be - if the civil rights movement hadn't won over the white majority it wouldn't have succeeded, and we'd never have Obama at all.

I'm glad they all fought for this, and they would've even knowing this result, but it's not great payback for those who did fight.

'your die-hard fundamentalist rejects.' - yeh that's why we chucked them out, well made them leave. We couldn't stand them either. Sorry...;-)

Re: Yeah....I don't see that ever happening.

[eskanto]

*chuckle*
Apology acccepted. How can I stay mad at the land that brought us Mel Brooks, Hugh Laurie, and Doctor Who? Not to mention those sexy accents....

[holy13nation.livejournal.com]

Prop 8. Is an appalling, indefensible turn around.
However, far more appalling would be McCain in the Whitehouse as well.
Let's not forget that not too many hours ago people were more than a little concerned about the perceived reality of that.
I did not think I would see today in my lifetime.
And since that has happened there has to be possibility of change elsewhere in the future.

ps
fuck all right wing religious fucks.

[timbearcub.livejournal.com]

Yes - just watched the acceptance speech. I'm seriously impressed and moved by him. And he reminded everyone it wasn't for him, that change was needed and it will take a while.

Agreed.

[eskanto]

I have to give McCain some credit, though, for a decent concession speech. Unlike some of his supporters (booing Obama? note that the crowd in Grant Park (Chicago) did no such thing), McCain was classy about his business, and pledged to not gum up the works out of resentment.

I'm holding him to that, but I do respect him from his Independent party days, and his experiences in Vietnam. I certainly would have preferred him to Bush II.