belonging and beardom

Interesting debate going on over at arthole's blog http://www.livejournal.com/users/arthole/437130.html (sorry not worked out that shiny user link thingy yet) about gay/bear scenes, sexuality, labels and belonging...phew! It's provoked quite a few thoughts in me, mostly outside the bear/LJ/gay scene.

Well I remember the post-gay and ex-gay stuff of the late 90's - mostly a kind of closeted or Xtian guilt malaise but there was some truth to it - but they became labels too...certainly I think gay men and women have nothing automatically in common tbh; apart from their sexuality, but have been forced to create an identity partly for survival and partly for political fight. It's still necessary but there are so many people disenfranchised by this community and enforced identity it's so NOT true.

It would be great if I just could be Tim (no labels) but I doubt it's happening yet, because that just wouldn't mean ME being at ease with who I am but the WHOLE of society being at ease with who I am - part of the 'putting people in boxes' is making sense of stuff we don't understand...the 'mad bad and sad' other tickbox that Foucault talked about. It seems that societies don't like grey areas...makes people uncomfortable you know?

Oops getting into academe mode; blame John...yes these are the kind of discussions we have on a Tuesday or Friday night. The (good and bad) baggage of having an academic partner!

Slumberjack mentioned waaaaay down a post about A-list http://www.livejournal.com/users/satarnion/190712.html - seems very true to me, had a similar experience in SF and also when I was involved with Bear clubs in London. But the whole schtick about signals and inclusivity although true doesn't apply to those who don't intentionally don't give off exclusive signals or wanting to interact in a cliquey way - they get shunned by the group because they aren't giving off the right 'group' signals...ironic huh?

This works with any-list, from musicians, DJs (eek they are the worst! Much worse than gay men, don't get them started on BPM or music genres, then it's handbags, nay large heavy metal record flightcases at dawn) messageboards and mailing lists. People form cliques, and you give off that scent of belonging, or you don't (I never have, I'm the one at the back looking faintly uncomfortable - it used to bother ,e but now it generally doesn't).

I'm with Marx (Groucho) on this question...and have formed a society of one, accepting the fact that I don't give a fuck anymore about joining or getting accepted - I interact with people I find interesting amongst different groups, be they work, design, art, music, bears, netgeeks or those dreaded DJs. :-P And I avoid the hierarchical events or places where others want to push my nose in my lack of belonging.

I choose not to belong. So there.

Damn I need to get some sleep...

belonging and beardom

Interesting debate going on over at arthole's blog http://www.livejournal.com/users/arthole/437130.html (sorry not worked out that shiny user link thingy yet) about gay/bear scenes, sexuality, labels and belonging...phew! It's provoked quite a few thoughts in me, mostly outside the bear/LJ/gay scene.

Well I remember the post-gay and ex-gay stuff of the late 90's - mostly a kind of closeted or Xtian guilt malaise but there was some truth to it - but they became labels too...certainly I think gay men and women have nothing automatically in common tbh; apart from their sexuality, but have been forced to create an identity partly for survival and partly for political fight. It's still necessary but there are so many people disenfranchised by this community and enforced identity it's so NOT true.

It would be great if I just could be Tim (no labels) but I doubt it's happening yet, because that just wouldn't mean ME being at ease with who I am but the WHOLE of society being at ease with who I am - part of the 'putting people in boxes' is making sense of stuff we don't understand...the 'mad bad and sad' other tickbox that Foucault talked about. It seems that societies don't like grey areas...makes people uncomfortable you know?

Oops getting into academe mode; blame John...yes these are the kind of discussions we have on a Tuesday or Friday night. The (good and bad) baggage of having an academic partner!

Slumberjack mentioned waaaaay down a post about A-list http://www.livejournal.com/users/satarnion/190712.html - seems very true to me, had a similar experience in SF and also when I was involved with Bear clubs in London. But the whole schtick about signals and inclusivity although true doesn't apply to those who don't intentionally don't give off exclusive signals or wanting to interact in a cliquey way - they get shunned by the group because they aren't giving off the right 'group' signals...ironic huh?

This works with any-list, from musicians, DJs (eek they are the worst! Much worse than gay men, don't get them started on BPM or music genres, then it's handbags, nay large heavy metal record flightcases at dawn) messageboards and mailing lists. People form cliques, and you give off that scent of belonging, or you don't (I never have, I'm the one at the back looking faintly uncomfortable - it used to bother ,e but now it generally doesn't).

I'm with Marx (Groucho) on this question...and have formed a society of one, accepting the fact that I don't give a fuck anymore about joining or getting accepted - I interact with people I find interesting amongst different groups, be they work, design, art, music, bears, netgeeks or those dreaded DJs. :-P And I avoid the hierarchical events or places where others want to push my nose in my lack of belonging.

I choose not to belong. So there.

Damn I need to get some sleep...

belonging and beardom

Interesting debate going on over at arthole's blog http://www.livejournal.com/users/arthole/437130.html (sorry not worked out that shiny user link thingy yet) about gay/bear scenes, sexuality, labels and belonging...phew! It's provoked quite a few thoughts in me, mostly outside the bear/LJ/gay scene.

Well I remember the post-gay and ex-gay stuff of the late 90's - mostly a kind of closeted or Xtian guilt malaise but there was some truth to it - but they became labels too...certainly I think gay men and women have nothing automatically in common tbh; apart from their sexuality, but have been forced to create an identity partly for survival and partly for political fight. It's still necessary but there are so many people disenfranchised by this community and enforced identity it's so NOT true.

It would be great if I just could be Tim (no labels) but I doubt it's happening yet, because that just wouldn't mean ME being at ease with who I am but the WHOLE of society being at ease with who I am - part of the 'putting people in boxes' is making sense of stuff we don't understand...the 'mad bad and sad' other tickbox that Foucault talked about. It seems that societies don't like grey areas...makes people uncomfortable you know?

Oops getting into academe mode; blame John...yes these are the kind of discussions we have on a Tuesday or Friday night. The (good and bad) baggage of having an academic partner!

Slumberjack mentioned waaaaay down a post about A-list http://www.livejournal.com/users/satarnion/190712.html - seems very true to me, had a similar experience in SF and also when I was involved with Bear clubs in London. But the whole schtick about signals and inclusivity although true doesn't apply to those who don't intentionally don't give off exclusive signals or wanting to interact in a cliquey way - they get shunned by the group because they aren't giving off the right 'group' signals...ironic huh?

This works with any-list, from musicians, DJs (eek they are the worst! Much worse than gay men, don't get them started on BPM or music genres, then it's handbags, nay large heavy metal record flightcases at dawn) messageboards and mailing lists. People form cliques, and you give off that scent of belonging, or you don't (I never have, I'm the one at the back looking faintly uncomfortable - it used to bother ,e but now it generally doesn't).

I'm with Marx (Groucho) on this question...and have formed a society of one, accepting the fact that I don't give a fuck anymore about joining or getting accepted - I interact with people I find interesting amongst different groups, be they work, design, art, music, bears, netgeeks or those dreaded DJs. :-P And I avoid the hierarchical events or places where others want to push my nose in my lack of belonging.

I choose not to belong. So there.

Damn I need to get some sleep...